2007 / March 21st/ 7 Flash Myths
Flash can’t be indexed by Google! You’ll lose 95% of your traffic!
Actually, Google has been able to index flash documents for a long time (as in, reading text from an SWF). Here’s a nice article on the subject (from 2004). Macromedia made a nice SDK for searching flash files. It extracts text and links from SWFs and allows you to analyze the raw data.
OMFG I don’t have Flash installed, so no one else does
Contrary to popular belief, Flash is quite popular. Extremely popular. Immensely popular. Just because you can list off 50 sub-groups who don’t have flash (’corporate’ users, open-source-freaks, 6 year olds in Nicaragua, etc) doesn’t mean that those 50 sub-groups even make up a percent of Internet users (or better yet your target audience). The current number is around 98%. Remember that number, 98%. Also remember that that 2% is likely to be the same people who have Javascript turned off, or browse with Lynx because it’s more convenient.
Flash can’t even support permalinks or the back button
Really? Are you sure? Seems like Robert Penner solved that problem back in 2001. And MTV seems to disagree about that whole permalink issue. I mean, it’s not like I can deep link to news articles or anything.
There’s no separation of content from presentation in Flash
Modern Flash development relies on using XML for content (hey, isn’t XHTML XML?), Flash movie clips for presentation, and external ActionScript files for behavior. You can write nasty Flash all gooped up into one mash of source, but then again, you can do the same with HTML.
Flash is completely inaccessible
Actually, Flash is a whole lot better at this whole accessibility thing. Remember, whether you’re doing Flash or HTML, you ain’t gonna translate a visual effect to a blind person. It’s just not going to work.
Flash can’t run on mobile devices
I honestly don’t know where this lie started. Flash is supported in more than 200 million mobile devices. That’s 2/3 the population of the United States. In most cases, flash is better supported than HTML, CSS and Javascript.
If I want a non-flash site, I have to maintain two separate sites
Not true. It’s very possible to feed Flash HTML. Meaning one HTML file, and if the users have flash, Flash uses the HTML content. One version. Graceful degradation.
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March 21st | #
LOL!! I love you guys!
March 21st | #
Yes thank you…claps
March 21st | #
[...] Great article over at Warpspire disproving 7 Flash myths that we all deal with on a daily basis with clients. I should send this article to some of my clients. Who the hell comes up with this stuff? [...]
March 21st | #
My father was killed by a 4 meg flash file.
He was 3 days from retirement.
This time… it’s personal!
March 21st | #
flash is for fart huffers and AJAX gets you laid
March 21st | #
Its good to see more and more people jumping on the Flash bandwagon, however, I honestly hope that this doesn’t take us back to the early double zero days of all Flash sites. Flash has its place in the web and should be used accordingly but should also be used with a sense of purpose and reason.
Excellent article by the way. Being a Flash developer I’ve heard all the arguments and banged my head against the wall over them since no one seems to listen.
March 21st | #
Every time you deploy a flash file…
a 6 year old in Nicaragua cries.
March 21st | #
Think of the children!
March 21st | #
SWFAddress is a small script that sits on top of SWFObject and provides deep linking for Flash websites and applications.
March 21st | #
Lauren: I have a feeling that either this year, or next will be the resurgence of flash. In a good way. The way HTML was reborn about 3 years ago. Hopefully more of the “standardistas” will take a second look at flash, and not see so much evil this time.
March 24th | #
[...] 7 Flash Myths — Don’t miss the comments, some of them are witty. [...]
March 24th | #
Another nice thing about Flash is that it looks the same in all browsers. No need for nasty CSS debugging in IE. :)
March 25th | #
Bravo!
March 27th | #
Actually Kevin, you’re wrong about blind people not being able to take in information whether it be HTML or Flash. There are special programs that can speak written HTML text, while that I can’t be done with Flash, so it does make sights very unaccessible for them and yea, I guess they are a sub-group, but I imagine it would kinda suck to go to a site where they could actually have HTML text but instead decide to make the whole thing out of Flash.
“In most cases, flash is better supported than HTML, CSS and Javascript.”
That’s make just about no sense. I didn’t know if you knew this but Flash kinda needs HTML to be displayed over the internet, so there’s no way Flash could be better supported than HTML.
Plus, what are the pro’s to displaying so much text in Flash anyways. I never understood why someone would want to decrease the number of people they can reach.
Flash is a good tool for specific elements with in a page, but really should never be used for whole site (portfolios are different), especially if there is a lot of text.
March 27th | #
Ben: Did you read the linked article? It explained how to tie in screenreader support to flash. Not to mention, with flash you can specify actual, customized, spoken word for text and not have to rely on screenreaders.
As for your second note, please note that I was referring to the combination of all of the above on mobile platforms. You can’t assume I meant everywhere on the web with that.
Flash is not isolated as being “good” for specific pages like portfolios. It’s “good” for whatever you choose it to be. What are the pros? Too many to list. It’s like asking why people serve content on the web as opposed to serving it on free newspapers. More people can read newspapers than can read the web… but why do we use an interactive media to begin with?
March 28th | #
First pt: The question you have to ask yourself is if it’s beneficial to use Flash when yes, you may be able to do all the same stuff, but when it’s significantly easier and less time-consuming to use HTML especially time wise. I’m just missing the point in going out of your way to make things difficult for yourself.
It seems more like you’re trying to make excuses for why it should be acceptable to use Flash for all purposes. Yes, you can use Flash, but why do it when you have to spend 10x the work trying to make it accessible? And if you don’t spend that much time, then you’re scewing over the people with disabilities. Depends on your viewpoint, Kyle.
Second pt: I knew what you meant. I didn’t skip the word “mobile”, but that still doesn’t make it more obiquitous. HTML is needed whether it be on computers, psp’s, or cell phones to display the Flash.
Third pt: I never said it’s isolated as being just good for portfolios. It’s good for a lot a apps that aren’t very text dependent.
“It’s like asking why people serve content on the web as opposed to serving it on free newspapers.” No it’s not. First of all, free newspapers aren’t free for the company producing it. It costs a lot for the paper, the cost of printing, and the delivery. It also is a 100 times (estimate) easier to serve content on the web because it not only does it cut all those costs, it also cuts the time it takes to get that content to the reader considerably.
“More people can read newspapers than can read the web..” How is that true? Anybody that can read a newspaper can read the web. And actually I’m about to prove you wrong on this point as well, because a blind person can take in content from a newspaper unless someone is physically around them reading it to them. On the other hand, that same blind person can go on the web and have a screenreader read it to them. So actually, the web has made it more accessible to everybody.
And yes, there are pros, but you can’t just like the pros. That’s how you get stuck in a situation like Iraq. You have to look at both sides of it; pros and cons.
March 28th | #
Kyle: Those are good mythbusters that I’ve always hid behind especially the first one.
March 28th | #
Ben: I’m not about to get into a discussion about the similarities between Flash and Iraq. You can continue down your own path if you like :)
March 29th | #
I’ve worked with some of the best elearning development shops in the UK and creating accessible flash isn’t easy, even for those who do it day in day out.
The other problem is the cost and the size of community of knowledge. With html, css, javascript etc, there’s plenty of information and inspiration out there with Flash there’s less.
Finally why would I want to pick a platform that’s closed and proprietary to one company (don’t forget the way they really loused up the security model for CD based content), when I can pick one’s that are open.
March 29th | #
Kyle: Not to mention, with flash you can specify actual, customized, spoken word for text and not have to rely on screenreaders.
Point is most people who have screenreaders are used to controlling their experience in a certain way, the secret to designing accessible content is to work with this and allow them to retain control, not create our own half-assed, non-standard implementation of screenreader behaviour.
March 29th | #
Kyle: Thanks for replying to nothing I said other than the last sentence.
You wanted to compare it to newspapers and online content. I did that too and took up a lot more of my last comment than Iraq. I was actually looking forward to hearing a response from you. But if you have no rebuttle, that’s fine, just don’t make one sentence out of my whole response the reason you don’t answer me.
Show a little maturity, please.
The point is that Flash can have negative impact on the way readers take in the information compared to HTML and your newspaper to online content example, just helped prove my point.
Andy: I completely agree with you.
March 29th | #
Ben, I won’t start an argument of ignornace. I’m sorry, but I jus won’t. Needless to say I don’t agree with your viewpoints and I feel they are naieve. That is why I do not respond to them.
March 29th | #
If I’m ignorant or naive. then tell me why I am. Actually, respond to my points.
Personally, I think you’re misleading people and trying to make excuses to use a certain platform. I could just say you’re a stupid college kid, but that wouldn’t be constructive to the topic.
I’m willing to believe anything that’s true, but just saying I’m ignorant or naive without backing up your position or responding to my points, is frankly immature if I may say.
I don’t want to get into a name-calling war. I just want to have an intelligent conversation. If you’re capable of such, then please reply. Again, name-calling doesn’t anybody get anywhere.
March 30th | #
Ben:
And I could just call you an idiot who read the word Flash, skipped the rest of Kyle’s article, and started making up stuff…
But I won’t…
April 1st | #
And you can’t…
Because I read every word and the links. If you want to blindly follow this guy, that’s fine, but considering he hasn’t replied to single of my points. Usually, when that happens, it’s because the person has been lost the debate, but I’m sure he has some excuse, like he didn’t want to bring himself down to my level by actually participating in a legitimate conversation.
It’s nice to see he doesn’t succumb to just calling people names and ignoring the real points and .. oh wait..
April 1st | #
Ben: This is my site, and my rules. If you do not show a little bit of respect, I will delete your comments. I have told you exactly why I will not respond to your comments. If you are so passionate about this subject, feel free to shoot me an email. It’s easily accessible.
April 12th | #
Great! So why is this blog not flash?
“doesn’t mean that those 50 sub-groups even make up a percent of Internet users (or better yet your target audience).”
Right, so haw many commercial sites are targeted at ’corporate’ users and how many at 6 year old Nicaraguan girls? 98% means nothing if all my clients clients are in the 2%.
99% of decision makers laptop owners have 0% install rights and most of them can’t even playback quicktime. Nor understand that the “this could be a virus” warning on their internet exlorer does not really count for flash.
They also want to be able to copy and paste data from sites or save a page for future reference.
“completely inaccessible…Flash is a whole lot better at this”
Well the page you point to give some alternatives to screen readers, one of them being “Provide an accessible alternative to the Flash content.” …. and “Make the Flash content self-voicing” as in: go hire a voice and store lots of kb and use up lots of bandwith to mimic what all pc’s can do local… Sure if that is a “solution” than all myths are easy to bust.
And there are more cons on flash. One I find very important: It always looks like it’s made with flash. Round gradiant balls when gradiant is a new tool and everything blurred when the blur filter is implemented… Flash is dictating the design.
Anyway,… You’ll probably just comment on a typo and call me naive.
April 12th | #
[...] 7 Flash Myths - Warpspire (tags: flash accessibility usability myths) [...]
April 12th | #
Joeri: Thanks for the laugh man, I needed that :)
April 17th | #
For the “Flash is inaccessible” myth, I would say you are kind of wrong here. Yes, Flash can be made partially accessible, but is that by default? Nope. Do you have to do quite a bit to kind of make it accessible? Yep. Is it better off for you to avoid flash for the most part? Yep, if you care about accessibility.
April 25th | #
Bah I strongly disagree with most of these comments, I might even write you a small email as i feel it misleads people.
These arent Myths these are real problems with flash and solving them is not easy… MTV are a giant with money so no problem and John Penner is a whisker away from being officially announced a genius. SEO… pfff dude… research please there are answers but they lie with SWFObject not Google going through the file… :`/
Having two sites is easy? Yea if your a dab hand at mysql, php and some js…
Nice idea for a post, but not really a great idea for those people that will read this and think, yea… flash site, no problem (i am self taught flash developer working commercially for 3 years now).
May 1st | #
I’m an impartial reader and have read through the post and the comments and would think that many of those casting doubts on Flash and these “myth busters” have valid and intriguing points. Therefore, I would like the original author, Kyle, to give counterpoints, express his opinions, and do some more “busting.” I was coming to a realization that Flash wasn’t as bad as I had heard but with these comments, I am persauded to think otherwise so some feedback from the author would be greatly appreciated and extremely helpful.
PS. I would also like to know, why isn’t this blog made in Flash if it is such a valid medium?
May 1st | #
Wes: The vast majority of the counterpoints are simply complete falsities. I would place all of Ben’s comments under this. Others are extremely similar. Notice all of my points are backed up by factual references. None of the counterpoints are. Here’s a few debunkers for you:
Blaming the medium for the artist is so completely absurd, I don’t know how to respond to that.
As for the why isn’t this blog in flash?:
The web is a medium. Why aren’t all newspapers printed on high-gloss in color? Is it because high-gloss color is somehow less effective than newsprint? Different tools for different jobs, plus giving you the choice of which tool to use. I prefer using HTML, so I use HTML. An artist has choices of which materials to use for their pieces; I chose HTML.
Asking why my blog isn’t in flash is like asking a Watercolor artist why his paintings aren’t in Oil.
For those giving any of the comments a grain of salt: ask yourself why they aren’t providing references for their claims. I could make up a list of 200 Flash Myths if I was allowed to make claims without reference. Here’s one for you: “8. Flash solves world hunger”
May 2nd | #
Very nice article - Flash indeed has been underestimated by many webmasters. But it seem to be changing nowdays.
May 2nd | #
“Asking why my blog isn’t in flash is like asking a Watercolor artist why his paintings aren’t in Oil.”
Actually it’s like asking a Watercolor artist why ALL of his paintings aren’t Watercolor. It’s the artist’s preference to paint watercolors, but it doesn’t mean if there’s a specific thing that may be done better in another medium that he can’t go ahead and use that other medium, in this case Oil Paints.
Now back to the reason I am posting here. What do you recommend for a “portfolio” website?
I like how flash can make subtle movements, how the transitions from one page to the next can be smooth and flowing, like one big gesture. I think I should learn flash and make my site out of that.
What are the reasons NOT to build my site with flash?
Would it be better to make the site HTML with embedded flash elements?
May 3rd | #
Chris: No, I still think you’re misunderstanding a bit. It’s not an all or nothing thing. I have built HTML websites, I have built Flash websites. I don’t always build HTML or always build Flash because of one reason or another. There is no “better” medium — there’s just different mediums.
As for which to use, you have to ask yourself a few questions:
As for some cons, there’s plenty. Same goes for HTML. You’ll have to decide that on your own though :) Plan out your priorities. Is SEO more important than visual impact? Is load time more imporant than rich media? Etc, etc.
May 4th | #
Is Flash harder to make accessible than HTML? Just a yes or no answer will suffice, followed by reasoning.
May 4th | #
It’s neither harder nor easier. “Accessible” is a tricky word. Kind of like asking if something is pretty to someone. Each person has their opinion, and it matters what group of people you’re asking.
It’s just different.
For example: keyboard accessibility. Flash is much easier to make a site keyboard-accessible since you have absolute control over the cursor. Browsers have different key events, different handling, and a different interpretations of things like tab index’s.
For example: visual accessibility. HTML is much easier to make a site accessible for those visually impaired. There’s a lot of pre-baked functionality in as long as you assume someone’s using a modern screen-reader.
Again, it’s just different. And using that argument against flash makes about as much sense as asking why Vipers don’t get good gas mileage.
May 7th | #
But isn’t visual accessibility (at least accessibility to content) the more important part of any kind of accessibility when talking about websites?
May 7th | #
Wes: Visual accessibility more important? You sound like a crazy person. There is no “more important” accessibility in web design. It completely depends on your target audience.
May 10th | #
I haven’t run into any all-Flash pages at the top of or even on the first page of a Google search entry. Nor have I been able to find a search engine optimization strategy for these indexed swfs worth reading.
Google is not the only search engine being used out there.
Sites built with CSS and Javascript rarely have load times greater than negligible.
Sites built with CSS and Javascript are absurdly easier to update and modify.
The timing and behavior of basic things like clicking on a button in Flash always feel off/delayed to me.
Users have greater control over their surfing experience in html. They can do things like change their font-size at whim rather than selecting from a list that you had to plunk in beforehand. Good stuff for the visually impaired or giant monitor endowed. Your flash site is only that flexible if you go through the effort to make sure it is, something that takes a lot more work and isn’t standardized.
Your accessibility comment is patently absurd and having had a blind buddy makes me want to smack you upside the head.
People hate exclusively Flash designs for a good reason. Flash designers. Sorry fellas but it hasn’t exactly had a proud place in the history of the ‘net and short of specific uses, I see no reason it’s going to overwhelm coding.
Flash is a tool not a replacement. People who can’t grok that are lousy designers and I’m pleased that exclusively flash sites being so hard to find minimizes my running into them by accident. I can only think of one that I’ve liked in recent years and I still hated that it was 100% Flash.
If only your clients could understand? They do. They’re business people. They’re thinking about their customers. They’re not effete hipster web dev artistes more interested in impressing their VJ friends with how slick their sites look than they are the people who actually may or may not have an interest in the actual useful content on said sites.
If you’re a crappy typist or don’t want to stay up on coding take a paycut and step to the side please.
May 24th | #
As for search engines, they consider flash content as “simple text”, nothing more nothing less. No specific tags like bold text or italic can be implemented in flash files regarding search engine optimization (SEO) “on page” factors. But it can be used for interesting seo techniques because one can hide a lot of content in a small sized flash preview or presentation. That is why flash has a great potential for webmasters who do care about their website’s search engine positioning.
June 5th | #
Love this news. We are on the eve of revising our all-flash site for many of the myths outlined above. Can’t wait to send this to the nay-sayers. I hope your myth-breaking solutions work. Need more info on the SEO bit…
June 23rd | #
I love flash, and on some projects, I use Flash, but on others, it isn’t as useful as HTML/Ajax
For example, on a pure Flash site, you can’t use CTRL-F (Find, Search) , an extremely useful feature in browsers, that is killed with Flash (if you have a workaround though I will fall madly in love with you.)
With HTML, the user sees everything as it loads, a very useful feature, that way in case something stalls, atleast they know the site is loading. I know you can have different flash files load in the window, and that is a fix of a sort, except each flash file has an additional size, which can be very important depending on the target audience.
Flash does deprecate, but not nearly as well as something you set up yourself. I’ve seen flash files create hundreds of paragraphs when none were needed, I’ve seen it place things in super insane positions, and I’ve seen it resize things so that they don’t fit. For current users, some of these are annoying, but for users on dialup, or other slow connections, this can mean the difference between a profit or a loss.
Don’t get me wrong, Flash is incredibly impressive, and I will always use it on some projects (until a better program comes along) but, most of the time, it just doesn’t fit an entire site.
But, I’m holding my breath for the day it does.
June 29th | #
The themes this year were absolutely astounding. I have no idea how judges could distribute the points among so many distinct designs, so statistically speaking (don’t take this literally please), anyone could be (is) a winner
July 20 | #
When was the last time you saw a flash site at the top of any Google serp for a competitive keyphrase?
July 25th | #
Actually, even if Macromedia tries to deny this, Flash is really hard in SE indexing. Some of flash sites have many backlinks, but its hard to find themin SERP.
September 22nd | #
Well, Kyle is right. All of those problems can be overcome with flash but it is more difficult. Once you get a library of tools, perhaps it can be easy for you but there are few prebuilt systems available to buy for flash. Some of the big flash guys (odopod, firstborne, group94, etc) have systems that they can likely put in place very fast but they are not selling and certainly not giving these systems away. On the other hand, I downloaded wordpress for the first time and had a site running in about an hour and was on my way to tweaking the design.
It is all about the right tool for the job. I prefer working in flash, to me it is more fun, but what most of my clients need is an html site. I just built a site in flash for a client with a cms, it took MUCH more time than it would take to do a similar site with wordpress (I suspect) and still doesn’t have half the functionality and certainly not the deep community of plugins.
I look forward to being able to develop a site however I like… more like a coder with html/css or more like a designer in a visual way in flash and the site have all the same strengths either way.
September 27th | #
Go Kyle, Go. I totally agree with you. I do limited flash work as it’s not my medium so much. I wish it was. I’m trying to make it my medium. Or at least add it to my tool box.
It always looks like it’s made with flash. Round gradiant balls when gradiant is a new tool and everything blurred when the blur filter is implemented
Why do all AJAX sites look like AJAX sites?
I do think Flash has it’s place and purpose. Just like all the other technologies have their place and purpose. I suspect the Flash flamers don’t use flash because they never learned how.
October 16th | #
Great article, Kyle. You definitely know what you are talking about.
Myself, I use Flash for my portfolio, Wordpress for my blog.
When you know both mediums, you tend not to hate either one of them. No doubt the naysayers aren’t yet comfortable with Flash.
@ErikOh, and HTML shouldn’t be synonymous with the word ‘coding’. You can code in Flash as well, and it takes much more math skills than aligning pixels.
December 5th | #
I realize this is an old article, but I had to laugh at saying MTV can have good Flash because there rich.. that is just wrong on all accounts.
Flash isn’t the issue, its the way it is used thats the issue.
@Ben, You really don’t have to spend much more time making Flash accessible.. use XML as the delivery medium, DDL for linking and external assets to build a sidecar XHTML version with little to no additional development time required.
February 29th | #
I’ve only read halfway through the comments so apologies if this was already addressed, but there was one very important point that joeri raised that was overlooked I think:
“They also want to be able to copy and paste data from sites or save a page for future reference.”
He’s referring to the inability to bookmark pages in a Flash website. Am I simply uninformed of the way to make bookmarking work with Flash? (I’m not a seasoned web developer after all.) If not however, I would consider the inability to bookmark pages a HUGE limitation. Or to email someone else a link to the specific page within a site which they should read, same limitation really.
March 2nd | #
jhocking: Apologies if I come off rude: read the article before you read the comments. I addressed this exact issue in the third paragraph.
April 8th | #
@ All: It’s not about the technique, it’s about the communication/message and the target group of your client(s). If your assignment is to create a stunning visual online presentation for a new brand introduction, html with javascript/ajax simply doesn’t give enough possibilities. with INSISOMO, (Interactivity, sight, sound, and motion-graphics) capabilities in Flash technology, indeed 98% of the users can experience a stunning brand (stage) website. You’re all talking about SE indexing, … how about using meta keywords? Google adwords as an extra next to a flash website? try to think in combinations instead of limitations. Html isn’t better than flash, nor is the opposite. As a creative director of a digital design studio in Amsterdam, Netherlands, I believe interaction designers should aim for the best ‘experience design’ possible. regardless the technology. @All, keep up the good work. :)
July 24th | #
Good questions and good answers. Thanks a lot, I learned manything that i don’t know before. Thanks again.