Comments on: The deception of job-hunting in the web business http://warpspire.com/tipsresources/web-production/the-deception-of-job-hunting-in-the-web-business/ my god, it's full of stars Wed, 19 Nov 2008 06:06:40 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5.1 By: Larissa http://warpspire.com/tipsresources/web-production/the-deception-of-job-hunting-in-the-web-business/#comment-48579 Larissa Mon, 15 Oct 2007 09:52:33 +0000 http://warpspire.com/journal/web-production/the-deception-of-job-hunting-in-the-web-business/#comment-48579 <p>To judge the qualification of a job candidate in web business is easier than in other businesses. You can ask for his projects in the past. Nevertheless I agree to Phill, invite him/her for a one, two days trial to see if he/she will fit into the team.</p> To judge the qualification of a job candidate in web business is easier than in other businesses. You can ask for his projects in the past. Nevertheless I agree to Phill, invite him/her for a one, two days trial to see if he/she will fit into the team.

]]> By: Dave http://warpspire.com/tipsresources/web-production/the-deception-of-job-hunting-in-the-web-business/#comment-8247 Dave Wed, 15 Nov 2006 15:27:35 +0000 http://warpspire.com/journal/web-production/the-deception-of-job-hunting-in-the-web-business/#comment-8247 <p>Woah, great article Kyle, way to expose the truth of employment in our incredibly corrupt business society...thing. <em>makes a mental note to take psych classes</em></p> Woah, great article Kyle, way to expose the truth of employment in our incredibly corrupt business society…thing. makes a mental note to take psych classes

]]> By: Neil D'Souza http://warpspire.com/tipsresources/web-production/the-deception-of-job-hunting-in-the-web-business/#comment-8061 Neil D'Souza Mon, 13 Nov 2006 13:37:10 +0000 http://warpspire.com/journal/web-production/the-deception-of-job-hunting-in-the-web-business/#comment-8061 <p>It's impressive how prospective employers place their ads for hiring. You'll find that they require all the skills possible and yet when going in for an interview have no sense of a pay grade for the same.</p> <p>So the questing is whether a guy/gal with a skill set of (X)HTML/CSS/XML/Javascript/ PHP/Photoshop/Flash etc etc. get paid the same way as one with just about good experience with XHTML/CSS/Javascript? </p> <p>A small company always faces this problem because unlike a large organization, the smaller employee (tsk) probably got to do a 3-man job, service multiple clients and even brew his own coffee. All this just before his lunch break.</p> <p>Is it possible to quantify the value of each of your skills vis-a-vis your experience vis-a-vis your actual market exposure? </p> <p>If it is then it seems like a wise choice in determining what pay you may command. Unfortunately, it's too complex a mathematical equation to actually determine a point rating, or star rating ;)</p> <p>Any thoughts?</p> It’s impressive how prospective employers place their ads for hiring. You’ll find that they require all the skills possible and yet when going in for an interview have no sense of a pay grade for the same.

So the questing is whether a guy/gal with a skill set of (X)HTML/CSS/XML/Javascript/ PHP/Photoshop/Flash etc etc. get paid the same way as one with just about good experience with XHTML/CSS/Javascript?

A small company always faces this problem because unlike a large organization, the smaller employee (tsk) probably got to do a 3-man job, service multiple clients and even brew his own coffee. All this just before his lunch break.

Is it possible to quantify the value of each of your skills vis-a-vis your experience vis-a-vis your actual market exposure?

If it is then it seems like a wise choice in determining what pay you may command. Unfortunately, it’s too complex a mathematical equation to actually determine a point rating, or star rating ;)

Any thoughts?

]]> By: Kyle http://warpspire.com/tipsresources/web-production/the-deception-of-job-hunting-in-the-web-business/#comment-7477 Kyle Sun, 05 Nov 2006 05:01:40 +0000 http://warpspire.com/journal/web-production/the-deception-of-job-hunting-in-the-web-business/#comment-7477 <p>I know exactly what you mean, but here in Alberta - we have this labour shortage meaning that nearly everywhere is hiring. Yeah, it sucks to be a business owner here in this province, I know.</p> I know exactly what you mean, but here in Alberta - we have this labour shortage meaning that nearly everywhere is hiring. Yeah, it sucks to be a business owner here in this province, I know.

]]> By: Daily itzBig Links 2006-11-1 - The itzBig Blog - Serving the Unserved – Recruiters, Job Seekers, Quiet Working Professionals http://warpspire.com/tipsresources/web-production/the-deception-of-job-hunting-in-the-web-business/#comment-7257 Daily itzBig Links 2006-11-1 - The itzBig Blog - Serving the Unserved – Recruiters, Job Seekers, Quiet Working Professionals Wed, 01 Nov 2006 15:40:11 +0000 http://warpspire.com/journal/web-production/the-deception-of-job-hunting-in-the-web-business/#comment-7257 <p>[...] WarpSpire: The deception of job-hunting in the web business “With the boom in hiring, comes a boom in salary negotiations. Anyone who’s ever looked for a ‘real’ job before will know that this is by far the lamest part of looking for a job. More often than not, when you’re looking for a job, you’re in need of money. This puts you in the compromising position of needing any money you can get — but requiring the ability to starve for a little while until your employer comes around to a decent offer. In short: it sucks.” [...]</p> [...] WarpSpire: The deception of job-hunting in the web business “With the boom in hiring, comes a boom in salary negotiations. Anyone who’s ever looked for a ‘real’ job before will know that this is by far the lamest part of looking for a job. More often than not, when you’re looking for a job, you’re in need of money. This puts you in the compromising position of needing any money you can get — but requiring the ability to starve for a little while until your employer comes around to a decent offer. In short: it sucks.” [...]

]]> By: Cody Lindley http://warpspire.com/tipsresources/web-production/the-deception-of-job-hunting-in-the-web-business/#comment-6818 Cody Lindley Tue, 24 Oct 2006 15:37:25 +0000 http://warpspire.com/journal/web-production/the-deception-of-job-hunting-in-the-web-business/#comment-6818 <p>@Kyle - The term small was used objectively, in that a company with 250,000 employees is large, while a company with 100 employees in contrast could be consider small. I meant no offense; just that mathematically they are different.</p> <p>Also, I would imagine that any model is broken under enough scrutiny, all my point was is that larger companies in my opinion make an attempt to classify and pay employees in an objective way with objective data. In fact, in the larger companies where I have worked there are people who's single job is this task, as opposed to the small business owner who pays what he can regardless of what a person might be worth.</p> <p>I think also we can't over look or minimize the fact that most of us in this buiz. produce tangible measurable work. Those with this type of work, should get paid more than those who say they can do this or that, but have no tangible measurable work. Heck, in most cases its what we do that does the talking, not what we say.</p> @Kyle - The term small was used objectively, in that a company with 250,000 employees is large, while a company with 100 employees in contrast could be consider small. I meant no offense; just that mathematically they are different.

Also, I would imagine that any model is broken under enough scrutiny, all my point was is that larger companies in my opinion make an attempt to classify and pay employees in an objective way with objective data. In fact, in the larger companies where I have worked there are people who’s single job is this task, as opposed to the small business owner who pays what he can regardless of what a person might be worth.

I think also we can’t over look or minimize the fact that most of us in this buiz. produce tangible measurable work. Those with this type of work, should get paid more than those who say they can do this or that, but have no tangible measurable work. Heck, in most cases its what we do that does the talking, not what we say.

]]> By: Kyle http://warpspire.com/tipsresources/web-production/the-deception-of-job-hunting-in-the-web-business/#comment-6761 Kyle Mon, 23 Oct 2006 16:06:23 +0000 http://warpspire.com/journal/web-production/the-deception-of-job-hunting-in-the-web-business/#comment-6761 <p><strong>J Phill:</strong> Yeah, that's something like how we try to do it now. The problem becomes trying to hire people that are out of the area. It's hard to convince someone to come down, take a couple days off work, and do that. Gets even worse when you start adding up how much it costs to do this.</p> <p><strong>Cody:</strong> True, although the worst offenders of this from my experience are the larger in-house dev teams. From talking to a lot of my friends working in similar roles, most in-house dev teams base salaries off longevity and "years experience." This is just trading in one broken model for another.</p> <p>Also, I'd be careful who you call small ;) We do more work, better work, and have more employees than a lot of the Top 50 interactives. We just dont' do ad-buys, so our revenue doesn't get inflated.</p> J Phill: Yeah, that’s something like how we try to do it now. The problem becomes trying to hire people that are out of the area. It’s hard to convince someone to come down, take a couple days off work, and do that. Gets even worse when you start adding up how much it costs to do this.

Cody: True, although the worst offenders of this from my experience are the larger in-house dev teams. From talking to a lot of my friends working in similar roles, most in-house dev teams base salaries off longevity and “years experience.” This is just trading in one broken model for another.

Also, I’d be careful who you call small ;) We do more work, better work, and have more employees than a lot of the Top 50 interactives. We just dont’ do ad-buys, so our revenue doesn’t get inflated.

]]> By: Cody Lindley http://warpspire.com/tipsresources/web-production/the-deception-of-job-hunting-in-the-web-business/#comment-6757 Cody Lindley Mon, 23 Oct 2006 15:11:37 +0000 http://warpspire.com/journal/web-production/the-deception-of-job-hunting-in-the-web-business/#comment-6757 <p>@kyle - Have you always only worked at a small agency? Have you ever work for a large corporation? I asked because in my experience the small agency is were web positions are most diluted with old school thinking left over from the advertising world of yesterday. If you want to be treated fairly (or as fair as possible), I suggest trying on the shoes of a corporate web developer. It’s not as glamorous as the work that a typical small agency will do. But one thing is for sure, they know how to size up an employee, pay them and reward them fairly, and provide career path training. Mostly this is possible because in a bigger company they can afford large HR departments whose only job is to make sure the crap that happens in small agencies is filter out. Just my two cents...</p> @kyle - Have you always only worked at a small agency? Have you ever work for a large corporation? I asked because in my experience the small agency is were web positions are most diluted with old school thinking left over from the advertising world of yesterday. If you want to be treated fairly (or as fair as possible), I suggest trying on the shoes of a corporate web developer. It’s not as glamorous as the work that a typical small agency will do. But one thing is for sure, they know how to size up an employee, pay them and reward them fairly, and provide career path training. Mostly this is possible because in a bigger company they can afford large HR departments whose only job is to make sure the crap that happens in small agencies is filter out. Just my two cents…

]]> By: J Phill http://warpspire.com/tipsresources/web-production/the-deception-of-job-hunting-in-the-web-business/#comment-6749 J Phill Mon, 23 Oct 2006 12:59:55 +0000 http://warpspire.com/journal/web-production/the-deception-of-job-hunting-in-the-web-business/#comment-6749 <p>I wouldn't say that interviews are completely worthless. It helps break the the ice, but I don't think you can hire someone based on just that. It's good to talk about projects and stuff and get a feel for the person. </p> <p>But I think having the person maybe come in to the agency for a day, and give them a test project; that way you can see how they work and interact with other people. It could be a great way to see if they fit.</p> I wouldn’t say that interviews are completely worthless. It helps break the the ice, but I don’t think you can hire someone based on just that. It’s good to talk about projects and stuff and get a feel for the person.

But I think having the person maybe come in to the agency for a day, and give them a test project; that way you can see how they work and interact with other people. It could be a great way to see if they fit.

]]> By: franky http://warpspire.com/tipsresources/web-production/the-deception-of-job-hunting-in-the-web-business/#comment-6734 franky Mon, 23 Oct 2006 10:24:34 +0000 http://warpspire.com/journal/web-production/the-deception-of-job-hunting-in-the-web-business/#comment-6734 <p><em>I believe that we need some sort of test that can rate a producer’s knowledge</em> How much would the people taking the tests get paid. As they obviously need to be the gurus to know the 100 and 1 ways.</p> <p>Or do you take the web is already mature enough to start working at a <em>gouverning</em> body for those things. Standardistas (the so called gurus) forming a W3C/anything body. That would be a huge step forward, but is it possible? Or is it still too early, or does the world wide nature of the web block such a thing to happen?</p> I believe that we need some sort of test that can rate a producer’s knowledge
How much would the people taking the tests get paid. As they obviously need to be the gurus to know the 100 and 1 ways.

Or do you take the web is already mature enough to start working at a gouverning body for those things. Standardistas (the so called gurus) forming a W3C/anything body. That would be a huge step forward, but is it possible?
Or is it still too early, or does the world wide nature of the web block such a thing to happen?

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